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Saints aware of prayers/not directed prayed to

 I understand your request to address whether saints can hear prayers and whether praying to saints is a New Testament (NT) concept, using only the Bible as a reference, without citing external sources like Orthodox theology or Church Tradition. I’ll also respond to the post you received, which claims biblical examples support saints hearing petitions, using solely NT passages. My response will focus on direct biblical evidence, avoiding any non-biblical references, and address the Eastern Orthodox context implicitly (as per your prior questions).1. Can Saints Hear Prayers According to the New Testament?Answer: The NT does not explicitly state that deceased saints hear prayers, but it contains passages suggesting they may be aware of earthly events and participate in heavenly intercession, implying they could hear petitions through God’s power.

Biblical Evidence:Hebrews 12:1: “Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us.” The “cloud of witnesses” refers to the faithful from Hebrews 11 (e.g., Abraham, Moses), who are in heaven. The term “surrounded” suggests they observe or are aware of believers’ lives, which could imply awareness of prayers, though it’s not explicit.

Revelation 5:8: “And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”The “elders” (often interpreted as glorified saints in heaven) present the “prayers of the saints” (likely believers on earth) to God. This suggests heavenly beings handle earthly prayers, implying awareness, but it doesn’t directly say saints hear petitions addressed to them.

Revelation 8:3–4: “And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.”This shows heavenly mediation of earthly prayers, with an angel (not a saint) involved, but it supports the idea that prayers reach heaven, possibly through glorified beings.

Luke 16:19–31: In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Abraham in the afterlife hears the rich man’s plea and responds, though in a narrative context. This suggests the righteous dead may be aware of petitions, but it’s not a direct teaching on prayer.

Limitation: No NT passage explicitly states that deceased saints hear prayers directed to them (e.g., “Saint Peter, pray for us”). The verses above imply awareness or intercessory roles but lack clear evidence of saints receiving petitions.

2. Is Praying to Saints a New Testament Concept?Answer: The NT does not depict Christians praying to deceased saints for intercession, but it supports related concepts like intercessory prayer among the living and the unity of the living and dead in Christ, which could underpin the practice.

Biblical Evidence:Intercessory Prayer Among the Living:1 Timothy 2:1–2: “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.”Paul encourages believers to pray for others, showing intercession is a Christian duty. This could extend to saints in heaven, but the NT applies it only to the living.

James 5:16: “Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.”The “righteous” are urged to pray for others, and saints in heaven could be seen as supremely righteous, but the context is earthly.

Unity of Living and Dead:John 11:25–26: Jesus says, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.” This affirms that believers, including deceased saints, are alive in Christ, supporting the idea of a connection between heaven and earth.

1 Corinthians 12:12–27: Paul describes the Church as one body with many members, implying unity between living and deceased believers, though it doesn’t address praying to them.

No Direct Examples: The NT records prayers to God or Jesus (e.g., John 14:13–14: “Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it”; Philippians 4:6: “In everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God”). There are no instances of believers addressing deceased saints (e.g., Mary, Peter) for intercession.

Transfiguration (Matthew 17:1–3): Moses and Elijah appear with Jesus, conversing with Him, showing the righteous dead are active in God’s presence. However, the disciples do not pray to them, and the focus is on Jesus.

3. Responding to the PostThe post claims: “How do you know God never makes it possible by his Grace for his Saints who are alive with him in heaven to hear petitions from those on earth? I’d like to see biblical examples. Because I can show a number of examples where it IS the case.”Response Using Only the Bible:Addressing the Question: The NT doesn’t explicitly say saints cannot hear prayers, as God’s power could enable this (e.g., His omnipotence in Psalm 139:7–12, applied to heaven). However, no verse directly shows saints receiving petitions, so the burden is on the sender to provide evidence.

Evaluating Their Claim: The sender claims “a number of examples” where saints hear petitions. Based on the NT:Revelation 5:8 and 8:3–4 show heavenly beings (elders, angels) handling prayers, which could imply saints’ awareness, but it’s not a direct example of praying to saints.

Hebrews 12:1 suggests saints witness earthly events, but it doesn’t depict petitions addressed to them.

Luke 16:19–31 (Lazarus and Abraham) shows a conversation in the afterlife, but it’s a parable, not a prayer practice.

These are the closest NT passages, but none explicitly show Christians praying to deceased saints. The sender’s claim of “a number of examples” may overstate the evidence, as the NT lacks clear instances of such prayers.

Challenging the Sender: You could respond: 

“I don’t see clear NT examples of praying to deceased saints. Hebrews 12:1 and Revelation 5:8 suggest saints may be aware of us or present prayers to God, but no one in the NT prays to them directly, like we pray to God (Philippians 4:6) or Jesus (John 14:13). Can you share the specific verses you mean by ‘a number of examples’? I’m open to discussing them!”

Why the NT Is Silent: The NT focuses on Christ as the sole mediator (1 Timothy 2:5: “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”). Prayers are directed to God or Jesus, and intercession is urged among living believers (James 5:16). The practice of praying to saints likely developed later, building on these NT principles of unity and intercession.

SummaryCan Saints Hear Prayers? The NT doesn’t explicitly say saints hear prayers, but Hebrews 12:1, Revelation 5:8, and 8:3–4 suggest heavenly beings are aware of earthly prayers and present them to God, implying saints could hear petitions through God’s grace.

Is Praying to Saints an NT Concept? No direct NT examples exist of praying to deceased saints. The NT supports intercession (1 Timothy 2:1–2), unity of living and dead (John 11:25–26), and heavenly awareness (Hebrews 12:1), but prayers are addressed to God or Jesus.

The Post’s Claim: The sender’s “number of examples” likely refers to verses like Revelation 5:8 or Hebrews 12:1, but these don’t show direct prayers to saints. You can ask for their specific verses to clarify their argument.

If you want help refining your response to the post or analyzing specific verses the sender might cite, provide more details, and I’ll stick to the Bible for the answer!

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